So a colleague in ministry and I got into it the other
day. We were exchanging views on one of
the ‘mortal sins’, one of those things that traditionally sends a person straight
to hell, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
He is definitely a black and white, heaven and hell kind of fellow while
I tend to see shades of grey. The
discussion was "wrath of God" versus "mercy of God".
Well, at one point, he turns to me and basically tells me I
am up the creek when I stand before the throne of grace. I will have to defend my weak-kneed, lukewarm
position, daring to water down what he perceives to be as the express and absolute
command of God. First, he pissed me off,
pardon my language. Then he got me to
thinking.
It is one thing for me to defend my own life before the
throne of grace. There is a long string
of darkness that will be brought into the light and I pray that the confessions
of my soul here on earth will keep those events forgiven and forgotten from heaven. But now I was being challenged
on a whole different level. He was
challenging my standing before God as a shepherd, as someone responsible for
the faith and guidance of others.
The issue we were talking about was suicide. His position, life is gift from God, you take
it by your own hand, one way ticket to the permanent fiery vacation. There was no nuance, there was no consideration
of the pain that a person might be in that leads to suicide, there was no
consideration of being in one’s right mind, there was no consideration of the
mercy of the Lord.
He spoke with the authority he perceived he had from the
bible and I was wrong, and God was going to get me for it.
That was the first time in a very long time that I was so
glad to be a mainline Presbyterian pastor.
And not because we ‘don’t believe in hell’.
I was so very glad because I could stand in the Spirit and
pray for the day when he stands before the throne of grace and has to explain
his condemnation of a person in so much pain that they want life itself to
end. I pray that God has the mercy he is
denying to those most in pain in our world.
I know, it’s not nice to bash a fellow minister. But do not tell me I am NOT doing God’s
work. It must be nice to have such black
and white positions drawn out. I say the
Bible says this, stand on that side of the line and Jesus loves you, stand on
the other side of the line and Jesus flushes you to hell. Do this, you are good, do that, you are
condemned. Makes it simple.
Now don’t get me wrong, I believe that people are
responsible for their actions. I believe
that hell exists and that there are people deliberately and flagrantly disobedient
to our Lord Jesus that are headed in that direction. But I also believe that mercy has a much
higher place on the divine agenda than many of my fellow pastors seem to. I think the strength of the mainline is that
we have latched on to God’s mercy and question too many of the sacred cows of what
people have traditionally thought is condemned in Scripture. We
stand in the middle of society and consider what the bible tells us and
struggle with the changing reality around us.
(And that is the closest I have ever come to accepting post-modernism!)
The great strength of being Presbyterian is that we operate
by committee. We put good people in a
room and we listen to the gathered wisdom of the Spirit as filtered through
each presence. Lutherans and Methodists
may do that too, but I am not one of them, so I do not know. I have not come by my ‘loose morals’ on my
own, but by the deep and intense communication, debate, and cooperation of my
fellow Christians, Presbyterian and otherwise. But the principle of the shared witness of the Spirit is something I was brought up with in the Reformed and Presbyterian tradition.
I was basically accused of loosening the authority of the
Bible with my “mercy-talk”. I don’t see
it that way. I think I was taking the authority
of the Bible far more seriously because I don’t see cookie-cutter divisions
between heaven and hell. Life is far
more complicated than that. God is far
more loving than that.
And if I have to stand before God some day and defend why I
claimed God’s mercy over God’s punishment, I pray I have the grace to remember
my church, my Presbyterian Church USA, that taught me about the extent of God’s
mercy.
Peace.
5 comments:
Interesting discussion. For somewhat different reasons, I, as someone with a more conservative and catholic bent then yourself, also very much value the mainline denominations (and I count the very recent conservative spin-offs as mainline for these purposes) though I count as one of the great tragedies of our day the falling into error and consequent irrelevance of the the American mainlines. But some thoughts in order.
1. I think that Michael Horton's book "Christless Christianity" and Ross Douthat's book "Bad Religion: How We Became a Nation of Heretics" both contain a lot of really important insight. I think that in American Christianity today - both liberal and in much of conservative evangelicalism - there is a lot of confusion about God's Law and God's grace. Horton traces much of this back to a strong Pelagian streak in the popular folk Christianity of the 1700's and 1800's and this has found its way into modern American Christianity. Americans like to be in control, we are doers of things for ourselves, nobody tells us what we should believe or do, we are in control of our destiny. And so much of liberal Christianity and conservative evangelicalism are two sides of the same coin. Now, I am oversimplifying this for sure - you need to read the books, but here goes. Conservative evangelicals set up Christianity as a Great Moral Code which we must follow. If we follow the Code, we will be rewarded - be it with heaven, or prosperity, or God's kingdom here on earth (in which Republicans rule, of course). There is nothing about grace or mercy, other than the odd lip service.
Liberals have the same mindset but they simply approach things differently. They also believe that there is a Code that must be followed. They just want that Code to sync with the code of popular liberal secular humanism, and the Bible is expected to comport with that. And so liberal secular humanism judges the Scriptures. And so, they insist that anything that is popular with liberal secular humanists be removed as violations of the Code, and things that are intensely disliked by liberal secular humanists be inserted as violations of the Code. As for the "old" Code, they argue that it is "judgemental". But they cleverly draw their Code so that the things they already agree with are part of the Code (e.g. support for liberal social and economic causes) while things they don't like are not part of the Code (e.g. support for conservative social and economic causes). And so, since everything they already believe is cool, there is no real need for Christ's atonement for our sins. Speaking from experience, there is tremendous hostility towards the theology of Christ's atonement amongst liberal clergy of my mainline denomination.
I think that orthodox Christianity must hold out fully on BOTH God's Law and God's grace. God's Law is what it is as described in Scripture. It is what the Church has held across all time and space (more on that below). And YES, God's Law IS judgmental. It is supposed to be. We are not supposed to be judgmental, but God's Law is. But we have all fallen short of God's Law. That is part of being human. And that is why we can't be judgmental. We have all fallen short. And that is where God's grace comes in. Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world and invites each one of us into an unmerited relationship with him. We can't boast of earning that. Nor can we "un-earn" that.
2. So let's apply the above to the immediate issue of suicide. "Bad" conservative says that suicide is a mortal sin, and that if you commit it, you've lost our on your reward. You did the deed, you pay the price. No grace there. Liberals will be influenced by the growing acceptance of assisted suicide by secular liberals. They will then begin to argue that assisted suicide is okay, and perhaps something that might just need to be celebrated and blessed with liturgies. Christians, I would argue, would hold out that suicide is a sin, but that Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world, and that only God knows the heart of someone who commits suicide.
3. I note your comment "I think the strength of the mainline is that we have latched on to God’s mercy and question too many of the sacred cows of what people have traditionally thought is condemned in Scripture." Well, I would suggest that you are starting to head off-base here. Without law, there is no grace. There must be law for there to be grace. If there is no law, there is no violation, and if there is no violation there is no need for atonement, and if there is no atonement there is no Gospel. And no need for God. And so I would argue very strongly that "mercy" (or "grace" as I would rather say) goes hand-in-hand with behaviour that is "condemned in Scripture." Because if a thing is not "condemned in Scriputre" than it is not logical to bring up God's "mercy." Mercy for what? If I do a thing that is not wrong, how is God "merciful" towards me for not holding that against me? And so I would argue that the Church must hold on very firmly to God's Law (or risk undermining God's mercy) but must simultaneously offer God's grace to individuals.
4. I note your comments "We put good people in a room and we listen to the gathered wisdom of the Spirit as filtered through each presence....I have not come by my ‘loose morals’ on my own, but by the deep and intense communication, debate, and cooperation of my fellow Christians, Presbyterian and otherwise. But the principle of the shared witness of the Spirit is something I was brought up with in the Reformed and Presbyterian tradition." I would argue that you need to expand this concept to the Church Catholic (and I don't mean the Roman Church, I mean the Church Catholic). The problem that I see with some mainline liberals is that they carve out a very small part of the church (i.e. people who think a lot like themselves, who live in the same culture, during the same era in history) and listen to each other, and then think that they have heard the full voice of the Holy Spirit. I would argue that the Holy Spirit speaks in full voice ONLY to the WHOLE church, as Scripture is interpreted by the catholic fullness of the Church across all time, all cultures, and all places.
5. I think that it is conservative folks in the mainline denominations (and also in recent conservative spinoffs from the mainlines - those of the last decade) that have best managed to hold on to the balance between God's Law and God's grace. That's a general statement, and I am sure that there are exceptions. I very much hope that the guy you had the interaction with wasn't Presbyterian or Anglican. I do think that church leaders (not just pastors, but anyone who is a church leader) will be held to a higher standard (but Jesus even died for church leaders, right) as they have the care of souls on their conscience. But that's another issue.
Hi again Peter, (Let me try this again)
First, your friend will be disappointed that you are NOT going to hell for your stand on suicide. I have that from the Lord who says, Judge not lest you be judged.
Second, I firmly believe that the only hell we have to be concern with is the one we make ourselves and for each other by sidelining Christ's command to love as Jesus loved, which trumps all other commandments/laws or pious opinions. I simply do not find that the Word Jesus Christ testifies to a God that is in the soul sorting business of creating all things good but imperfect then shuffling some into bliss and others into eternal torment. [See A New Kind of Christianity by Brian McLaren pp. 33-45] This of course won't convince your colleague that you aren't going to hell but you will find it theologically interesting if not highly convincing.
The God that forgave those who attempted to kill/silence God is not going to refuse to forgive lesser "crimes and misdemeanors." Not even one of us is unflawed or knows what we are ultimately doing. I'll go with Jesus who never condemned suicide and taught in word and deed to trust/believe God to do the judging and love (have compassion) at ALL COST, including the threat of being relegated to hell by well meaning "Christian" friends and colleagues.
At the pearly gates I trust God's word of love and will throw myself on God's mercy and grace having erred on the side of loving. Shall we meet there, Peter? I fully expect that your colleague will be surprised to see us, Mr. McLaren and a host of suicides in eternal bliss right along with him/her. There is NOTHING IN ALL CREATION that can separate us from the love of God we know in Christ Jesus. Not even other's judgments or our own, not even the hell we create trying to get to heaven.
I believe that hell is real, and that there is something in Creation that can separate us from God (although not necessarily His love). I refer to C.S. Lewis, from the Great Divorce:
“There are only two kinds of people in the end:
those who say to God, ‘Thy will be done,’
And those to whom God says, in the end, ‘Thy will be done.’”
and
“All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. To those who knock it is opened.”
So, we can separate ourselves from God. God gives us that choice. C.S. Lewis expands on this much more, but I like what he says.
Also relevant to this issue is 1 Corinthians 3:11-15:
"For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw — each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire."
God is holy and we are sinners. And we are frequently in error. I don't think that God just looks the other way. We will be purged (Romans do have genesis of the truth in their doctrine of purgatory). Purging will be painful to us, but necessary.
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